Uphill New England: Building a Community for Uphill Skiers

In this episode we interview Ed Warren, founder of Uphill New England, an organization dedicated to promoting uphill skiing in the region. Ed discusses the origins of Uphill New England, its partnerships with ski resorts to create an amazing Uphill Ski Pass, community-building initiatives, and the development of a mobile app to enhance the uphill skiing experience.

Our conversation highlights the challenges and successes of creating a supportive community for uphill skiers, as well as the importance of collaboration within the outdoor sports community. Ed discusses the vibrant uphill skiing community in New England, highlighting local gear shops, resources for beginners, and the importance of community events. He emphasizes the evolving culture of uphill skiing, the competitive spirit fostered by platforms like STRAVA, and shares personal achievements in the sport. Ed also provides insights into favorite backcountry skiing locations and hidden gem events, while passionately advocating for the unique endurance culture in New England. The conversation concludes with tips on being a responsible and engaged member of the uphill skiing community.

Key Takeaways:

• Uphill New England was founded in the summer of 2023 with a group of friends passionate about Uphilling.
• Community building is a key focus, with newsletters and events to engage skiers.
• The Uphill New England app provides real-time conditions for ski resorts that have partnered with Uphill New England.
• A gear library was established to lower the barrier to entry for new skiers.
• Events are designed to be welcoming and accessible for all skill levels.
• The organization aims to standardize uphill skiing policies across resorts.
• Ski mountaineering races are fun and inclusive.
• New England is a hub for endurance sports enthusiasts.

Art & Eric embark on a journey to showcase and celebrate the endurance sports community in New England.

Transcript

Art Trapotsis (00:06)
Hey, welcome to the New England Endurance Podcast, another episode in season two. And we're excited today to have Ed Warren on our show from the Uphill New England Organization. Hey, welcome, Ed.

Ed (00:19)
Thanks for having me.

Art Trapotsis (00:21)
Ed is the founder and managing director for Uphill New England. And I want to first define what we mean by uphill. So we're talking about uphill skiing, otherwise known as uphilling, alpine touring, backcountry skiing, or just plain old skinning. It's one of those things that if you're a trail runner or cyclist looking for some winter recreation, there's nothing like getting your cardio fix, you know, skinning up a mountain multiple times and then, skiing down. So I got a chance to do this recently up at Pat's Peak, went up with a friend of mine and it was fantastic. so I'm really looking forward to today's episode.

Ed (01:01)
That's great. got, we'll get into it, but we got so close to getting Pat's Peak onto the pass last year and just didn't. So I'm going to, I'm optimistic for next year, but we're going to keep working them.

EAZY E (01:12)
Well, maybe after today, Ed will get them going. So a little bit about Ed. Ed is an entrepreneur. Maybe we'll unpack that a little bit. He's an outdoor enthusiast who started this incredible organization, which is kind of interesting too, Ed, right? Because it wasn't that long ago where this organization, nobody would have. In a very short amount of time, the fact that there is an uphill New England, I think, is really interesting. Uphill New England is partnering with ski resorts to make uphilling worthwhile for

Art Trapotsis (01:12)
Alright.

Ed (01:14)
There we go, there we go.

EAZY E (01:40)
both resorts and the skiers, which has definitely been a missing link. And we're hoping to learn more about that today. So Ed, welcome. Let's jump right in. When and why did you start Uphill New England? What inspired you? And what were the challenges that you saw that needed solving?

Ed (01:56)
Yeah, so we actually came at this from a slightly unusual angle. The original conversation I remember having was actually a bunch of ski-mo racers, which we can talk about that. That's one of the yet another label for this sport, right? Short for ski mountaineering. was a of ski-mo racers who wear spandex and do races at ski resorts and in the back country.

Art Trapotsis (02:11)
Ski-Mo

Ed (02:19)
And we were just talking about how to grow the sport, how to expand the sport, the challenges to the sport. And, and we realized that just like one of the biggest issues for getting into fast and light ski touring was especially in New England, there was just limited access, right? Like there was not great snowpack on the ground all year round. And we can, you we can talk about that, but the reality is like ski resorts are the place to go. And there's just a lot of ski resorts that have mixed feelings about uphillers, right? I think a lot of ski resorts, yeah, no, I think so. I mean, and look, it's like, I actually, we'll get into this, but I think one of the reasons that this has been successful is that we came to ski resorts and we said, look, your concerns are not unjustified. They might be overblown, but they're not unjustified, right? Like this idea that if you have an uphiller going up the mountain in the middle of the night,

EAZY E (02:46)
misunderstood. Let's say misunderstood, right? Yeah.

Ed (03:12)
and there's a groomer and there's a close call and a safety issue like that. I get it. The ski resorts don't want that and that's concerning, but the answer isn't shut down all uphilling at all ski resorts everywhere across New England. And that was the thing we were worried about and one of the problems we wanted to solve. wasn't just making sure it didn't get shut down. It was also making sure it was easier. If you're an uphiller and you want to do the right thing at a ski resort, then...

You have to go find the website. You have to find the uphilling section to figure out what the policy is. And then you have to make sure you sign the waiver ahead of time. You have to figure out whether it's paid or not. You have to go into the, into the lodge to go pay. There's kind of all these steps to going uphilling that were often very

Art Trapotsis (03:55)
You mean I can't just go

up my favorite black diamond trail straight up the middle?

Ed (03:59)
Yeah, exactly. like straight up the mogul run right at the middle. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. They don't like that. And although even that is funny, so many mountains have like completely different policies. Like at some resorts, it's like for a while, there was some resorts that just said, go wherever you want, whenever you want. There were no rules. And then other resorts that had extremely strong opinions about what kind of trails you were going up.

that led to more confusion with our pillars because maybe they go from one resort where anything's allowed to another resort, but that's not the case. And you just get these dynamics where a pillars aren't doing the right thing. And so our attitude was, look, there's a lot of kind of similar and overlapping problems that we can solve here. There's just general awareness of how to, what the rules are, how to comply with them. There's making sure that access is available to everyone, that that access is easy, that we're standardizing things.

It really became clear that all of this were different ways of saying we needed to create a more consistent community around uphilling and have a central place for people to go to learn about the sport, to get access to it, to improve the relationship with ski resorts and to kind of build something that was more coordinated and less disparate for the community.

Art Trapotsis (05:10)
Hmm.

EAZY E (05:10)
So when did you actually start Uphill New England?

Ed (05:13)
So this org is only a year and a half old. We started in the summer of 2023. A bunch of friends got together, came up to our cabin in New Hampshire and sat around after a gravel biking. was actually, did a gravel bike day and then said, how can we, let's all sit down and talk about what it would look like to try to fix this problem.

A bunch of people stepped up and said they'd be willing to volunteer and put time and effort into this and decided we should start a nonprofit, which is what this is. And that was the summer of 2023. And it kind of worked out fortunately for me and I had some extra flexibility in my schedule because frankly, getting this off the ground was a massive effort, right? Trying to go convince a bunch of ski resorts that they should.

be a part of a multi-mountain pass and why is a multi-mountain pass the right way of solving this problem versus any other way of solving this problem? Building the pitch decks, trying to get them on board, building consensus, getting feedback. mean, frankly, the first version of the idea was different than this one. And so we really listened to ski resorts and tried to tweak it. And then figuring out all our systems, how are we going to sign liability waivers? How are we going to do arm bands? How are we going to fulfill those? was a whole little mini company, little mini nonprofit.

Art Trapotsis (06:29)
So, Uphill New England is essentially a pass you can purchase to go and uphill ski at a number of ski resorts. Can you tell us what ski mountains in New England you've collaborated with and can we go state by state maybe?

Ed (06:44)
Yeah, I'll have to pull up the list to do that. I mean, I think of Uphill New England really as the community, the nonprofit that is trying to build a vibrant culture of uphilling in New England. One of the main ways we do that is with our multi-mountain pass, right? So that is one product of what the organization is doing more broadly, but it is the main thing we're doing.

So the multi-mountain pass was really inspired by the Epic Pass or the Icon Pass. It's this idea that it's just that having access to a lot of different ski resorts is convenient for skiers, whether you're an uphill skier or downhill skier. And if conditions are terrible in Maine, but great in Vermont, then it's nice to be able to have the optionality to go over there and ski there. So it's a multi-mountain pass, very much like the traditional ones, but focused only on uphill access. gives you unlimited access at every ski resort with a couple small exceptions, but essentially you get the pass and you get unlimited access to all participating resorts. Of course, within their rules, right? If they don't allow skinning after dark, then you can't skin at their ski resort after dark, but otherwise you get full access to their resorts. And we have 20 now. We were 13 our first year and we added another seven this year.

really a mix of resorts, mostly independence, although not exclusively, right? I mean, we go from, as small as big moose mountain in super Northern Maine, which is, you know, in, and, all the way to Killington, right? So a big variety of types of mountains that have decided to participate in this, but for the most part, it's resorts that are, you know, want to be involved in the community, want to kind of.

fix, air quotes, know, fix the uphilling problem. And that has appealed to a large percentage of the resorts in New England.

Art Trapotsis (08:34)
Yeahnsaw you got Wachusett on there and Pico and Cranmore.

Ed (08:38)
We don't have Wachusett. Wachusett we are working hard on. I'm a big fan of Jeff over at Wachusett, but we have yet to get them across the finish line on Join the Vast. Yeah.

Art Trapotsis (08:50)
Okay, my bad.

EAZY E (08:51)
So Ed, do you

have resorts in every state in New England? Or I guess, are there Rhode Island? I was going to say, every state that has a ski resort.

Ed (08:56)
Not in, not in Rhode Island yet. We,

we exactly, you know, we, don't have one in Rhode Island and I don't think no Connecticut resort. but we, we not, we do have, Catamount was our most recent one. And funny fact about Catamount is that it straddles, Massachusetts and the New York border. So, you know, maybe we have to be Northeast, uphill Northeast, right? because we're now breaking the boundaries.


EAZY E (09:22)
So when you say you partner with those resorts, obviously what you're talking about is that people are transacting. They're purchasing a pass through you, which is providing them access. Could you explain, is there more to the partnership than that? would imagine there is.

Ed (09:25)
Yeah. So they've got one foot in New England.

Yeah, so I mean, on one hand, we don't want to ask our ski resorts who are participating to change too much about the way they do things, right? There's no way you're going to get every ski resort to become exactly like every ski resort. So we don't actually take a very heavy hand with the ski resorts, although we do ask them to do a few things to start standardizing stuff. so that is, you know, they update, they have a form which they fill out on a daily basis, which updates their uphill status so that people

Uphillers can go to the Uphill New England app and in that see that in one place all the status of which routes are open, which are not. And so that's one of the ways that ski resorts are starting to standardize things. They send us all their liability waivers. We load that up into our online purchasing system. So when someone purchases a pass, they sign all the waivers for all the resorts, not just their home mountain resort. So that ski resorts, there's standardization around that.

So those are like some of the ways that we've made it easier for ski resorts, but really it's mostly the pass and the revenue share that is the big element of the relationship with ski resorts. But then there's this kind of like other part that's harder to define, which is a lot of ski resorts, as I mentioned in the beginning, had this kind of angsty relationship with uphillers. And I think they wanted...

They have, they have really, don't know if they wanted this, but I think now that it exists, they really appreciate that there is an organization that represents uphillers that also cares about responsible uphilling. And before, if an uphiller did something wrong, it was just kind of another uphiller that was, you know, not following their, their, their rules and they kind of got frustrated with them. And now through uphill New England, I hope that they see that we are constantly reiterating a message of

Make sure you buy your pass. You have to sign the release of liability. You should always stay on the uphill route, follow the rules of the ski resort. They kind of have an ally in us. And I think that makes them feel much more comfortable with uphilling to know that there is an organization within this community that is trying to do it the right way. And that seems to have improved relations between uphilling and ski resorts.

Art Trapotsis (12:02)
Yeah, I love that. So you reminded me of a conversation podcast episode we had a few months ago with Granite Backcountry Alliance. They're another uphill ski organization that is super passionate about uphilling. They do it more at the private landowner level than maybe the resort level. But are you guys affiliated with them at all? Do you ever cross paths?

Ed (12:22)
yeah, all the time. we're huge fans of theirs. hopefully we've both been mutually supportive of each other. There's a, there's a ton of overlap in what we do. Yeah. They, really focus on the back country, whereas we do more of the front country, right. at the resorts and our two orgs are very complimentary, right? I mean, they've, they have built a ton of glades. but the reality is there's not always enough snow on the ground for the glades. And so the same people that go and ski in the glades want a place to train when.

they need manmade snow. And so they end up coming over to the ski resorts and up in New England ends up being useful. yeah, we've done events together. They're very generous and collaborative and we're big fan of them. Yes.

Art Trapotsis (13:01)
Nice, that warms my heart.

EAZY E (13:03)
Yeah, that's

great. And that's a good segue. So, you know, what we try to do here at the New England Endurance Podcast is talk about the community and certainly the community building. So let's talk a little bit about maybe some of your community building efforts. You know, how is Uphill New England bringing skiers together and are there specific initiatives that you're proud of that create those kind of connections amongst the Uphilling community?

Ed (13:27)
Yeah, so we do a mix of things. On one hand, we've started a newsletter. This is kind of the lightest touch, although probably potentially the biggest impact. We have a newsletter and an Instagram account, which has hopefully become a nice clearinghouse for a lot of the news and events for what's going on in the space. So we put a decent amount of work into that. Instagram people will tag us with conditions. if you're an uphiller and you want to know how does it look up at

You know up at Mount Abram or over at Killington You can you know follow our Instagram and be pretty well informed about what the different ski resorts look like So so the Instagram build some online community the newsletter gathers information We list we try to shout out every group that's out there So if granted backcountry Alliance is doing something if the Western Massachusetts backcountry Association is doing something we're calling that out There's a catamount group in Vermont that has a weekly race series like we're

we're trying to have a clearinghouse for all the interesting stuff that's going on across the community. So I highly recommend subscribing to the Uphill New England newsletter. You can do that on our website. Those are all kind of the online versions in person. We typically have a couple of different events a year, which we specifically host at either at a ski resort or ski resort or different events. were at the Snowbound Expo down in Massachusetts for this year and that

you know, that's an interesting example of we signed up for that kind of thinking it was going to be a marketing event for us to get our name out. And, and it was, but we didn't actually sell that many passes at the expo. what we did is we introduced hundreds, not thousands of people to what uphilling was. And we brought gear, we showed them how to use it. We got a ton of newsletter signups. What that ended up being was really just an ambassador moment where we went out to like,

show a bunch of people who weren't ready to buy a $200 multi-mountain uphill pass across New England, but were interested in this sport of, wait, what is uphilling? How does the gear work? And that was kind an ambassadorship moment for us down there. So that's kind of another example of how we get the word out. And then we do a variety of other things. any of the extra proceeds that we have from pass sales, we donate it back into the community. So we've supported inclusive ski touring that's run by Zach.

McCarthy, that's an organization that does great work. We also support a couple different youth skimo groups. There's a Ford Sayer group that does youth uphilling, as well as True Strength Athletic in Maine. We have bought gear for those, and then we give gear to those organizations so they can get kids into the sport because the barrier to entry for gear is so high. And then lastly, we did an intro to uphilling event over at Dartmouth Skiway a couple weeks ago.

in which we outfitted 30 to 40 people with gear and let them just go try it for free and learn the sport. Great event. Next time I will have six of me to help try to outfit everybody with gear because that was I was the single bottleneck there and that was a that was kind of a wild experience. But everybody from, you know, I think eight year old was the youngest to a 78 year old was the oldest who was out there on skis. So real fun community event.

EAZY E (16:30)
That's great. think that's the, you kind of called it out. it's a pretty big barrier to entry to purchase and do it. Like anything, mean, skiing, maybe running is the only one that's not. You go buy a pair of sneakers, even if they're expensive, it's certainly. But to go say, hey, I'm going to go buy two new skis, new boots, new bindings, and different poles where people don't realize that they're going to want to have different poles.

Ed (16:49)
Yeah.

EAZY E (17:00)
And maybe I'm not going to like it. So that barrier to entry or that ability to go and test something and see if I like it or test out equipment, I think that's really important. I got to ask, what's the vibe at those kind of events? Is it very welcoming? Is it intense? If you've never tried this before and Uphill New England is having one of these events, what's the vibe?

Ed (17:23)
Yeah, I mean, the vibe is very low key at these events, right? I I also do ski mountaineering racing and that can feel more intense. We also like to think of ourselves as welcoming, but I get it. That's like spandex suits and a little more intense. Uphill New England is really just like, let me teach you how to put your feet into these bindings, right? This is for beginners. This is very approachable. We have no agenda other than helping people get access to the sport.

And so yeah, I think the vibe is very welcoming and I completely agree with you about the barrier to entry for gear. We actually started, it's a sad story, but one of my friends was hit and killed while out for a run. He was visiting family in Florida, was hit by a car and was killed and his wife donated all his equipment to a gear library for us to then share with others. he was, like many of us, he had amassed a ton of gear.

His name was Chris Bustard and we started the Chris Bustard Memorial Gear Library. So this was the kernel and now other groups have donated to it. We've grown it. That was how we were able to outfit 30 plus people with gear is because we're building this gear library to lower the barrier entry for others to get into the sport.

EAZY E (18:33)
that's a great story. mean, sadly, we've all had those in the endurance community. We have those stories, but that's a fantastic way to honor him and pass it forward.

Art Trapotsis (18:45)
If folks are listening to this and would like to donate some gear, how would they go about doing that?

Ed (18:45)
Yeah, it's really great.

Yeah, so there's a form on the website. They can either just email us at info at uphilenewengland.org or fill out the form on the website and let us know what they have and then we can coordinate that.

Art Trapotsis (18:58)
Okay.

So hey, you mentioned your newsletter, which I receive I think every week or two. It's fantastic. And we did touch on the app, which I recently downloaded. And if you're listening and you haven't downloaded Uphill New England, the app, it's awesome. It tells you the conditions. Can you tell us a little bit more about the app? It's an incredible app for someone who's just doing a nonprofit. I feel like a lot of work went into it.

Ed (19:07)
good.

EAZY E (19:25)
Yeah.

Ed (19:26)
Yeah, I mean, I would say the coolest part about this organization is that it is volunteer run, but we've tried to build something that is well run. look, it's not perfect. I see the words of everything that doesn't work, but we have a great crew of volunteers. this mobile app is part of it. I actually, previous employee at a startup that I started ended up leaving my startup to start his own startup, and it was a no-code app builder app.

And so when, when it came time to start up Hill, New England, went to him and I was like, well, I'm still resentful that you left our company because you were an amazing software developer, but I'd love to use your app now. And so we, we use, we use his. We need an app. need an app. And so, you know, he gave us a, you know, kind of hooked us up and gave us a lot of custom effort to just out of the goodness of his heart. And then we have a Nick Brown who runs is really our in-house technology guy. And he makes sure that.

EAZY E (20:03)
We need an app. We need an app for the podcast.

Ed (20:19)
You know, he does all the configuration, the setup. we launched a Strava integration now, so you can, you can be integrated with Strava through our app and that all your uphilling vertical gets tracked. And then LL Bean has donated a ton of gift cards. So all the people with the most vertical will get a gift cards ranging between a hundred bucks and 25 bucks for vert tracking. So, you know, we're just able to do a lot of fun things with it. And this is all just volunteers putting in time on the evenings.

Art Trapotsis (20:27)
What?

That's cool. So you could click on a particular resort like, Berkshire East, I think, what's it called? And you can see if the actual uphill trail is open. And also at the downhill trails.

Ed (20:50)
Yep. Berkshire East, Berkshire East. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. And look, these are tough problems.

Yeah. These are tough problems to solve because getting, getting all the accurate information on a day-to-day basis in one place is like, there's just a lot of human error in that. so we've, we've done, we've done a good job. I would not say it's perfect, but what we've done is worked with the ski resorts to automate it so that they get an updated notification of what their status is showing in each day. And their communications team can easily just.

say no change or make a quick tweak, hit enter and all of that filters into the app and so all the user has to do is just go to the app and see all that information in one place.

EAZY E (21:31)
That's, it's really impressive. So you mentioned, it's a nonprofit, it's all volunteer run. But, you know, how is uphill New England sustaining itself financially, the platform, the dues, the sponsorships? Are there other avenues? Like talk us talk us through some of the metrics.

Art Trapotsis (21:32)
Nice.

Ed (21:53)
Yeah, I mean, I probably brought my private sector entrepreneurship background to this in a way that influenced the way we went about it. But we rely much more on a kind of a revenue model that is self-sustaining versus that is heavily dependent on sponsors writing a big check every year. that we, the vast majority of the revenue for every pass sale goes back to the ski resorts, right? They wouldn't be interested in doing this if they were not getting paid for access to their mountain, but

the portion, the minority portion that comes back to us is what we use to make sure we cover the costs of the mobile app, of armband fulfillment, of software. Really though, being an organization that is volunteer run, it's your labor costs that are the biggest thing. So we're able to run this organization with a very small internal budget and you just use the pass sales to make sure we cover our costs and even have a little bit left over to then make those donations and build up the gear library even further.

EAZY E (22:49)
That's great. But you do have some sponsors, right? So that like if, you know, if somebody wanted to sponsor you, you wouldn't say no.

Ed (22:52)
We do. Yep. yeah.

Yes, no, and

it is, it's something we're going to invest more in going forward. the, yeah. So, so sponsors out there would, we'd love to have a conversation with you. We, we have some great sponsors already. so white mountain ski company, many of the people. Yep. Yep. Well, some of our gold sponsors are white mountain ski company, Omer and Bob's. Yep. I don't have the, the, the website up in front of me right now, but, LL Bean.

EAZY E (23:10)
Yeah, I was going to say, who are some of your sponsors today?

Andrew Drummond. Yep.

Ed (23:23)
Do you guys have it up? There's one or two more on there. And the main thing that they provide is both some cash to help us with that as well as gear donations. And the gear donations allow us to do another benefit to our members, which is a big gear raffle at the end of the season. so we ended up donating something like...

eight pairs of skis in the raffle that people joined. All the uphill New England members could join an online raffle at the end of the year. And we ended up giving out pairs of boots, multiple pairs of skis, jackets, gift cards. And so that was a fun end of season event from, that was also powered by our sponsors.

EAZY E (24:01)
Is there a type of sponsor that you're looking for that could come in and bring something in kind, perhaps? as we, again, just put the word out to our...

Ed (24:11)
Yeah, so mean, definitely, you know, the obvious, the most obvious ones are outdoor brands and gear shops, right? Those are the two that we have the most of right now. I mean, our newsletter has a strong following, the website, the mobile app. These are all places for people in up-hilling community to get connected with these brands and get a lot of exposure. those are the main, that's the profile of them and it's a pretty obvious fit.

So when you're looking for gear, when you're looking to choose what brand or where to get outfitted or how to get advice on fitting or mounting equipment, that's a useful place to get connected with brands.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So Hagen is another great one. So Omer Bob's is a local shop near the Dartmouth area. Really wonderful local community bike and ski shop among other things. And I mean, they host like trail running or like just like it's a running meetup for people who do running all year round. It's just, it's a really great community gear shop. And then Hagen is one of these fascinating small European countries companies that have really great gear. If it is, that has like

just only started to penetrate the U S market, but they've really focused on back country and, they've made a big investment in uphilling. And so they're, they're just a, they're a great brand that has some very high end gear, which is, and we're big fans of them. So they're great sponsor.

Art Trapotsis (25:31)
OK, so I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, hey, I think I want to try uphilling. Where can I rent from? Like, where should I start? Do you have any advice to give people on how to get going on this?

Ed (25:44)
Not only that, one of our best volunteers, Jenny Rice, put together a resource on our website. I'm pulling it up right now, but if there is a resource that has every place in New England that rents gear and buys gear. So yeah, if you go to the More tab and then the Resources, there is a table which lists all the uphill New England mountains that have rentals at the mountain and then retail stores all across New England that have a specialty in

Uphilling and there's a list of about 20 of them there

Art Trapotsis (26:17)
will definitely add that to our show notes. So your recommendation is hey, hop on uphilenewengland.org, go to the resources page and just take a peek. Maybe there's something at one of my favorite mountains, Cannon Mountain. I know that they rent. You can hop on site and go up their uphill trail and give it a go.

Ed (26:36)
That's right. And then the other thing I would, I just would recommend more than anything is find in-person community events to go to, whether they're one of ours or one of the ones we list in our newsletter. I'll put a plug out for Skimo races. if you want to, if you want to go do, so Skimo is short for Ski Mountaineering. There's a race at Mount Abram in May, in Maine on January 12th.

These are really fun community events. Like there's some people there who are really serious and have carbon fiber boots and really lightweight gear and are pushing the limits of human endurance and speed on skis, right? And then there's others who are coming out and they're just doing the, many laps can I do in two hours? And they just kind of go up and they do a handful of laps in a couple hours, right? But this is where if you are at all interested in the sport, you can come out, you can meet other people, you can see how the gear works.

reach out to uphill New England, we have gear to lend. So if you want to use some of this gear at one of these races, we're happy to accommodate. So this is how you can get into the sport, meet other people, answer questions, and just figure out that like this, in my opinion, it's an amazing community that is like very chill and very welcoming, even though it has a high barrier to entry on the gear front. I would liken it to the early days of the gravel riding scene, right? When before gravel became so mainstream, it was,

Art Trapotsis (27:54)
Mm-hmm.

Ed (27:54)
Just, you know, a few people who realized, you know what, don't like riding on roads with tons of cars. like, I like going on dirt roads and getting off the beaten path and you know, bikes were limited and you were kind of trying to figure out what your gear was like. And it's, it's like that right now. You go to a schema race and it is not some big corporate event. is a small group of community folks hanging out, having a good time pushing themselves.

EAZY E (28:15)
Ed,

I would argue in support of what you're saying, but for everybody else out there, I think uphill skiing is getting more chill. I would argue that when I first started going uphill, it was a smaller segment of folks that were more intense. There was a little bit more Lycra, smaller helmets, and it was a little bit more racing. And now when I'm at the different resorts that I go to. I love Black Mountain. That's kind of my favorite home resort. But where have you, it's like, I'm seeing less and less intensity and more and more casual people going uphill. So I think it's an interesting, whereas I gravel maybe went in an opposite direction. This is, I think the people that I start to see go uphill are...

Ed (28:59)
That is interesting.

EAZY E (29:05)
becoming less and less intense. Or maybe it's divergent, right? Maybe there's two tracks going. But I would say for anybody that wants to go uphill, it is not like a bro scene. It's super chill. It's super welcoming if that's what you want. You can find the intensity. You can find the KOMs. But it's also very, very casual.

Art Trapotsis (29:08)
Yeah.

Ed (29:10)
Yeah, I mean, think the two things are related. think you're making a great point. You know, the people who get to start a sport are going to be the weirdos and the people who want a niche sport at the beginning, right? Like that's always the case, right? So whether or not you see people wearing like little climbing helmets and spandex because they wanted to get into it at the beginning, right? Like it's the weirdos who get started. But then other people realize, well, I'm not like I'm not looking for that, like that level of crazy. Like I'm not trying to set a KOM. I'm not trying to like set a record for number of vert in a season. Right. I just.

I just like the idea of having fitness that's like low impact and easy on my body and then fun on the way down. Right. And, and it grows and then, but then the bigger the base of support goes, like the more people that get into it, a lot of those people will say, well, you know, I, am a little competitive. Like I do like pushing myself. Maybe I'll go try an event. Right. And so then, and then you get more people who like start to come to these other events as well, even though I would still not define it as like, you know, it's, it's not corporatized. It's not like.

in it's not an intense environment, but there are some really great athletes who are there trying to push themselves at the same time. So I think it's both those things at the same time.

EAZY E (30:32)
Mm-hmm.

Art Trapotsis (30:34)
So you guys touched on Strava a couple of times. I just got to ask. So in cycling and running, obviously, when you go up a hill or any segment, there is a KOM and a QOM for those sports. Is there one for uphill skiing? Does Strava recognize that?

Ed (30:49)
yeah. There's

Strava everywhere, man. You can't get away from it. yeah. So yeah. So backcountry backcountry is the, is what they call it. for that, again, it's all the terminologies, right? Like, a lot of these are not in the backcountry. They're on the ski resort, but that's the, that's the category. and if I'll, if I can, I'll brag about my wife for a second. She,

EAZY E (30:50)
There's so much local edge, everything art. It's all there.

Art Trapotsis (30:55)
What do I have to select as my sport in the drop down? 

EAZY E (30:59)
Backcountry.

Ed (31:13)
So Andrew Drummond of White Mountain Ski Company put out a call on Instagram that they thought the the Tuckerman Ravine Trail, this was sorry, this was actually trail running. But this is there's there's also speed records on on skis as well. But trying to go up and down the Tuckerman Ravine Trail as fast as possible. That was that was for trail running. Put out the call and and, you know, everybody.

came out of the woodwork to try to put down the fastest possible times on the Tuckerman Ravine Trail. my wife ended up getting the best time and set the record going up the Tuckerman Ravine Trail to the top of Mount Washington. there are, if you look at the backcountry setting on Strava, is, you know, every single one of the Mount Washington routes, there are segments, are KOMs, they're fiercely contested. And that's just Mount Washington. Every ski resort has them. It's pretty funny.

Art Trapotsis (32:01)
Wow.

Did your wife get the up and down?

EAZY E (32:03)
Ed, your wife has hat KOM? Because there were some absolutely insane, despicable times that made me feel very bad about myself when I saw them happening.

Ed (32:06)
She does, yeah.

Yeah. My, yeah,

I got my wife into Skimo. Cause I was like, I really think you'll like this. And she's like, no, you guys are all weird. You wear spandex. I don't want to do this sport whatsoever. And I kept like pushing her on her and pushing. And then I stopped pushing cause I realized that was probably a better tactic. And then sure enough, she of her own accord decided that she was going to try schema and, and she became very, very good at it. She actually made the women's national team for a season in schema. And, uh, and so, so yes, she then did the Tucker men are being trail trail run.

going up the Mount Washington and yeah, I mean, she beat a couple of former Olympians in time and really had a remarkable Josie Fisher. should have her on the podcast. Yeah, Josie Fisher.

EAZY E (32:54)
I just saw the time, you know, because I could see them being posted. I know Andrew was posting them on his like, and I just saw the times going down and down and I'm just horrified. I'm horrified by how fast they were. So it was awesome. I thought it was a really cool thing that he put out last year. I really enjoyed that. I look forward. It's almost, it was almost like a golden ticket kind of thing, but no real just bragging rights at the end. So it was really cool.

Ed (33:21)
He hasn't done that on skis yet. I'm actually the holder of the record for on skis roundtrip on Mount Washington. that will also, I suspect, come down.

EAZY E (33:23)
No. okay.

Art Trapotsis (33:28)
What?

EAZY E (33:29)
This just went out to like millions of people and so people are gonna be gunning for you now, so.

Art Trapotsis (33:30)
Wait a second.

Wait, what's your time, Ed? 

Ed (33:36)
The round trip time was hour 29 for up and back down on skis. it's, you know, very conditions dependent. I think there are going to be plenty of people who lower that significantly actually, but that's a, it's a, it's a really fun thing.

EAZY E (33:52)
That's great. Ed, where's your favorite place to backcountry ski?

Ed (33:57)
I mean, we, so we have a little cabin in Bethlehem, New Hampshire, which is on the west side of Washington and the east side of Washington has a ton of amazing spots. spent a lot of time over there, but the west side is less traveled and it's only 30 minutes from our cabin. so we often will go up in Ammonoosuc Ravine or go up the cog railway. And it's kind of incredible. mean, especially with how light this gear is, people don't realize, but you can, I mean, on a spring day back at your skiing on Mount Washington.

You can go up Amoosic Ravine, go drop into Oaks Golf, which is on the south side of Washington, do a lap on Oaks Golf, come out of Oaks, just cross over the plateau, drop into Tuckerman Ravine, come out of Tuckerman Ravine, and then whether go up over the summit into Great Gulf, do a lap there and then ski out the cog railway and come back down. mean, it's a, it's a big day, but like you can access all of Mount Washington from the west side. And a lot of people don't realize that. And there's really amazing skiing over there.

Art Trapotsis (34:55)
That's incredible.

EAZY E (34:55)
Wow,

sounds like a great day. And any other places that you like to go though, maybe give us a top three.

Ed (35:01)
Yeah. So, I mean, so Mount Washington is where we spend most of our time. I, we, terms of like, I mean, I'll shout out the, the, you granite backcountry glades, just having a local glade is like an incredible, you know, incredible thing to do and to have, like that's a resource that's, really hard to find if we're talking about backcountry here. And so there's, there's some, great glades near, near where we are in Franconia, the Jericho Cooley Glade, a variety of others, that are a lot of fun. And then,

And then I'll say, I'll shout out my most recent exotic trip that I did is outside New England, which was I discovered, we went to the Republic of Georgia and we skied in the mountains of the Republic of Georgia. And it was one of the wildest experiences. mean, almost nobody, incredible powder. Like it was called the Svaneti region. They've got rock towers and.

It was just this wild, wild place and nobody was there on the border with Russia and really incredible skiing.

Art Trapotsis (35:58)
That sounds incredible. you have any favorite hidden gem events in New England with regards to backcountry skiing that folks can sign up for this winter?

Ed (36:08)
I mean, I've already plugged those a couple of the races that they've come up. Again, that's like, even if you're not into racing, you can just go out and do it at your own pace. There's a couple of race leagues in Vermont. There's the Green Mountain Community, they call it the Green Mountain Community Race League. think it's called, it's every, I believe it's every Tuesday.

at Bolton Valley. hope I'm getting those details right. You can see all the details on the Up-Bill New England website. And that's just like a bunch of people come out, they race, they drink beer afterwards. Like that's the kind of thing where it's really about community. And so I'd look into those things and come join. It's just a great chance to get outside.

Art Trapotsis (36:45)
Awesome.

EAZY E (36:47)
That's great.

EAZY E (36:47)
Well, Ed, we've covered a lot. We've covered Georgia, not Georgia in the South, but Georgia Republic of. But the real thing that people want to know is tell us why you agree that New England is the greatest endurance region in the United States.

Ed (36:51)
Republic of.

I mean, clearly I agree. I don't even know why you implied there may be another option. look, we got New England. I think New England has the highest density of an endurance nerds anywhere in the world, right? Like we got a lot of people who are just like looking, looking for ways to optimize things, right? Like out West.

In Colorado, it's just about having good times, being low key, right? But New Englanders are like type A, right? And we bring all this intense type A-ness, right, to our endurance activities. And we got great, we got the Great Mountains, or White Mountains are incredible, the Green Mountains are incredible. Maine is amazing, the Appalachian Trail. You got all this history, you got all these like type A endurance nerds, like there is no place in the world with this many people this focused on doing crazy endurance things. So clearly it's the best.

EAZY E (37:33)
you density. I like that.

Art Trapotsis (37:57)
Wow, I love that answer. Is there anything else you'd like to plug to our listeners today about Uphill New England or any other ventures you're working on?

Ed (38:05)
No, I mean, I would say please join the uphill New England community, whether you buy a pass or just want to come to an event. This is like this is us not just trying to provide something of value to you, the uphiller, but also for the community more broadly, improving relationships with ski resorts. Like this really is kind of a community effort to make sure that uphilling is embraced and continues to be allowed by ski resorts. So.

So please join us, be a good uphiller, be a part of the community. We welcome you to the sport.

EAZY E (38:37)
Well, we were going to wrap up, but I'm going to ask you a question because I think you mentioned it a couple of times, and it's good to define for everybody. But you just said it, Ed, like be a good uphiller. So just real quickly for all those that are just getting started and even those more experienced, help us be good uphillers. What does that mean?

Ed (38:55)
Yeah, so being a good uphilling citizen, right? I mean, it's really this idea that like the ski res... If you're in the back country and you're on public land, you more or less can do whatever you want. I I still recommend being safe and doing things a certain way. But I would say when you're at ski resorts, you are on another organization's property. Sometimes they're nonprofits, some of these ski resorts, sometimes they're big...

EAZY E (38:59)
Yes.

Ed (39:24)
private organizations, but either way, they are offering up their mountain for uphillers to come and be there. They do not have to have us there. so we should act in a way that is responsible for those ski resorts, but it's not just for the ski resorts. It's for our own as a community safety and good practice, right? So a few things, some pretty obvious and basic stuff, like always buy a pass. I think there's some uphillers who think,

hey, I'm not using the lift, so I shouldn't have to buy a pass. Well, guess what? One of the biggest reasons ski resorts are valuable to uphillers is because, not just because of the lift, it's because they make snow. And a New England snowpack is not valuable. And that is a multimillion dollar expensive operation. And being able to take advantage of that snowpack is a service that that ski resort is providing. So buy a pass. Don't try to sneak onto the mountain. It's really poor form, and it undermines the community. So buy a pass.

Art Trapotsis (40:11)
Mm.

Ed (40:18)
follow the rules, just take a moment before you go to see what the rules are, right? Some ski resorts, most ski resorts don't allow dogs, right? It's a safety issue. Dogs can get killed from getting lacerated from ski edges. Just follow the rules, see what you need to be doing there. If the ski resort says they're closed that day for uphilling, even if you drove a long way, even if that's annoying, follow the rules because they may be having winch cat operations going on. They could be very dangerous, right? They have their own operations and snowmaking to go on.

So follow those rules. And then there's just a bunch of good practice stuff. Don't be doing transitions in the middle of a trail, on the underside of a no-look hill. Find a flat spot out of the way. Honestly, it's just being thoughtful to those around you is really the core theme of all

EAZY E (40:54)
Yep.

Art Trapotsis (41:06)
Yeah.

EAZY E (41:07)
I like that. Be a good uphill citizen. And I think that's good. And I just wanted to make sure that we covered that. So Ed, thanks for being a guest on the New England Endurance podcast and celebrating the uphill community. I really think it's an incredible organization that you've built with your other partners, right? So I know it's not you. You're the face of it right now. But it sounds like there's some pretty incredible volunteers that helped you do it.

Ed (41:10)
Yeah, that's right.

Art Trapotsis (41:12)
Yep.

Cool.

Ed (41:32)
That's for sure.

EAZY E (41:33)
So thanks for being on and sharing everything with our listeners. And we hope you get a lot more mountains on the list. I'm going to put my shout out for Black Mountain and maybe the whole IndiePass group. just slide them right in there, Ed.

Ed (41:48)
That's right, that's right. Yeah, no, I guess hat's my other shout out. If you want your mountain to go on there, go over and respectfully and kindly nudge them to join the pass. That'll be, if they hear people pulling for it, that'll help. All right, well thank you so much for having me.

EAZY E (41:54)
Respectfully.

Great.

Art Trapotsis (42:00)
And that was awesome.

Yeah, thank you. You are fantastic guest and I was really excited to hear about Uphill, New England. I think I learned a lot today and hopefully our listeners did too. I'd also love to thank our sponsors, Lark Find Foods, the Everyday Athlete and Kinetic. And for all those that you want to learn about Uphill, New England, I'm to give out a few places you can find them. UphillNewEngland.org also on Instagram at UphillNewEngland

And we're going to tag this group in our Instagram. And you can find us at New England Endurance, also on Spotify, Apple, Google, YouTube, et cetera. But until next time, keep pushing your limits. Get out there and try some uphilling. You won't regret it. And enjoy the beautiful terrain of New England. Thank you.

EAZY E (42:46)
and be a good citizen.

Art Trapotsis (42:49)
Thank you.

Ed (42:50)
Love it. Thanks guys.